[Podcast] Beyond Metrics: Ishbel Macleod on the Questions Brands Forget to Ask

Podcast Transcript

Jackie Cuyvers:
Welcome to the Women in Social Listening and Insights podcast, where we showcase the incredible work of women working in the field of social intelligence. My name is Jackie Cuyvers and I’ll be your host for this journey. In this podcast, we’ll be speaking with women from enterprise agencies and academia who are leading the charge in the world of social listening and insights. Together, we’ll be exploring their careers and the challenges they’ve faced and overcome and the innovative solutions they’ve developed. Our goal is to provide valuable insights and advice to our listeners who are passionate about this field and committed to advancing their careers. Whether you’re a seasoned professional or just starting out, you’ll find inspiration and guidance in these conversations. So sit back, relax, and get ready to learn from the women who are shaping the future of social intelligence. Let’s get started.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Today I’m joined by Ishbel. Ishbel, please introduce yourself.

Ishbel Macleod:
Hi, Jackie. Thanks for having me. So I’m Ishbel Macleod, head of research and insights at Hydrogen, which is a social media agency and part of the PA Media Group. And in my role, I lead a team to deliver a range of insights for clients, from digital audience research to performance benchmarking, to tracking brand social media results.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Welcome. It’s so great to have you. How did you first get into social listening Insights? What was your path?

Ishbel Macleod:
So I feel like a lot of people in Insights have not really had a linear path. So I originally trained as a journalist and began working as a reporter at the Drum, which is marketing magazine. And here I was then asked to help run the social media accounts. They didn’t have a actual social media manager at the time, and then from there I moved agency side, focusing on social media and marketing. Before I joined Hydrogen, I was originally the marketing manager, and then I was asked to take up the role of head and Research and Insights, with the goal of helping to put analysis at the heart of what we do for clients. So it’s been a very winding path to get here.

Jackie Cuyvers:
It sounds like that’s given you a great range of experience and expertise from kind of all sides of the digital marketing industry. And Insights, what part of your current work inspires you the most?

Ishbel Macleod:
So, do you know what I should have asked you before we started this, Jackie? Can I use a swear word?

Jackie Cuyvers:
Yeah, go for it if you need to.

Ishbel Macleod:
Excellent. So basically, I am naturally a very nosy person, and that’s part of what made me interested in journalism. So it’s like I really love getting to the bottom of things, sort of creating that kind of like ha moment where you get that sort of nugget of knowledge that really helps. And yet I don’t know if you’ve seen this sort of a meme going around and it’s a woman standing up at a conference and the screen behind her reads, the greatest research skill you can have is being a nosy bitch that wants to find out. And honestly, I feel that so much. I get just that immense satisfaction from getting to the bottom of something. Whether that’s like, you know, discovering what a customer really loves, or finding a new audience that a client didn’t know about, or why a webpage is just getting like a random spike in clicks from social. I really love that and I feel that that sort of curiosity is something that a lot of people in Insights have in common. I don’t know about yourself, but I feel it’s. It’s a common area of really wanting to dig and find out the why behind things.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Absolutely. I think that’s definitely a trait shared by many social listening and insights professionals, for sure. How do you collaborate with stakeholders and partners to bring your insights into action in your current role or previous roles?

Ishbel Macleod:
Yeah, I think that’s a great question because it has been a big challenge sometimes to make sure that what we actually find is taken forward. So what we do at Hydrogen for weekly, monthly, quarterly reviews is we make sure that when we’ve got that sort of data, the Insights team sit down with our other departments, whether that’s the content team, the paid performance, team design, and we actually build out those tangible actions together. So it’s not just us saying do this, it’s us working together. And that helps make sure that we’re all on the same page internally about what we’re going to do next. For example, if we see something’s underperforming, would we work out together? Would what we want to do? And this just helps us make sure we’ve got a prepared solution to present to clients as opposed to just putting a line in report saying, oh, this hasn’t done well. We actually know what’s working and how to make it better.

Jackie Cuyvers:
So it sounds like you are using Insight in a range of different ways. Whether that’s kind of in depth for understanding and creating strategy versus kind of quick hits for maybe understanding the impact of some of those paid campaigns you mentioned. So when you use social data, how do you balance getting quick answers with more doing more in depth analysis?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think it really depends on the client and what they want to know as well as the deadline so sometimes, you know, you get asked for really quick numbers, like they’ve got a board meeting in 30 minutes and they want to know an answer. So obviously then it’s just, you just pull those numbers and it’s a couple of bullet points, or if they’ve got more time or there’s a more open question or interpretation, then getting that in depth analysis to really back it up and add that why to it as well. And an issue in the past has been there’s been smaller clients with tight budgets, so there’s only a certain amount of time that’s assigned to them that we can really spend. And so they don’t get that same level of analysis. But AI can help sort of level that playing field now to get a wee bit more, but while still providing a quick answer, but getting that extra research that we might not have been able to do in that time beforehand.

Jackie Cuyvers:
That’s interesting. When you are leveraging AI, is it generative AI, is it for analysis, summarization, how are you able to leverage it?

Ishbel Macleod:
A lot of time we use it to try and analyze large chunks of data. For example, we have a client that posts over 150 times a month on X. And so understanding some of the key things that work well can be difficult with so many posts. What we do is we put it all into ChatGPT and we ask it to analyze what are the top posts, what did he have in common? So ironically, we found out that a key theme was around AI and the audience wanted to know about AI and what was going on there so that we could have found that out ourselves. But that would have taken, you know, quite a long time going through all those posts, marking it down for each one and then analyzing it. Whereas ChatGPT found that out instantaneously.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Makes sense. And then the cost for having that human analysis, I guess, and the time, as opposed to, you know, using, using those tools to do that summarization for the value that it has for the client, it certainly, you know, possibly, you know, more valuable or cost effective to do it that way. For sure. So just expanding on, you know, some of the tools you’re using or the way you’re using social listening and insights. Can you perhaps walk us through a recent project you worked on and what you learned from it?

Ishbel Macleod:
Sure. Well, one that actually ties in very nicely to talking about AI as well was a bigger project we worked on for a Turkish news company and they wanted a strategy that they could put in place internally to grow both engagements and subscribers. So we carried out in Depth research into competitors, which included looking at over 34,000 posts, as well as tone of voice and design and audience analysis into who follows them, what they’re interested in and what platforms they use. And again, this was something that AI was incredibly useful for with all those posts. So we actually worked with the tech team at PA Media Group to build a prompt that translated all the copy, but also provide context around it. So into local politics, into the culture, and it’s things that we wouldn’t have known otherwise. And it also helped to tag all these posts by content theme and ties in exactly what you said, Jackie, about saving time. This is a task that would have taken us maybe a week or more to do manually and it managed to do it in less than half an hour.

So it really helped cut down that manual aspect so we could spend more time doing more important things. And it was interesting. The company had also carried out research into their target audience. And what I really love doing was we then used our social tools to understand their audience from a social perspective and then comparing those. And it was great to see that they actually married up quite nicely. Sometimes that’s not the case, but in this instance it was, it was really great to see who they wanted to target was actually who was paying attention to them on social media. So I love that as well.

Jackie Cuyvers:
That’s great that you’re able to validate that and see that. I’m really curious about the prompt. Was it like a, like a super massive extensive detailed prompt or was it a series of prompts? So like, were there multiple steps that it went through and that had kind of human intervention and review at different stages, or was it a very, very detailed, exhaustive giant prompt?

Ishbel Macleod:
We started off with a kind of giant prompt, but then it got additional stages added on. So it was creating. Looking into what the actual copy was saying. And then it was then provide analysis and then based on this and the analysis, provide a content theme from a list of content themes we provided and then provide justification for why it falls into that theme. So like adding those different. Four different stages and a prompt, but then going back and asking further questions where required or checking things. So yeah, it’s. It still took a little bit of time, but definitely a lot less time than if we’d had to go through it all manually or try to Google Translate all those posts.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Yeah, well, that’s really interesting. Thanks for sharing that example of the AI workflow. That’s, that’s very cool. You’ve talked about building trust with audiences in digital spaces. What is one shift you’ve seen recently in how audiences choose whom to trust. And how do you think brands should adapt to that?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think that people are getting a lot better at spotting what’s fake. And that’s two types of things. There’s people being able to quickly tell some AI fakeness, whether that’s extra fingers or melting backgrounds, but then also being able to tell when a brand is fake and what seems too polished to be true. And a big shift is that people are trusting people more than logos. So when it comes to who people trust, it’s not so much the sort of the politicians anymore. They’re trusting more the general public. And they want authenticity, even if it’s not as polished. Which is why you see brands such as Curries using their employees to do their TikToks as opposed to a big spokesperson.

It’s putting the real voices front and center. So that’s like, you know, that could be employees, it could be customers or using UGC creators themselves. And this can be either videos like, like Curry’s or even just a sort of certain friendly tone of voice. So for example, the national trusts, they have a really kind of friendly voice tone of voice. And on threads they’re always going on about how much they love scones. And it’s little things like that. It just shows sort of personality and puts that side forward. And that just really helps to build trust with the consumers and show that they are a brand that are aware of who they are.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Trust and authenticity. Sounds great. In a recent LinkedIn post, you mentioned that stakeholders often ask for trend spotting rather than deeper storytelling. How do you turn a trend into a story or a narrative that drives strategies?

Ishbel Macleod:
So we’re definitely seeing that trend spoilting is becoming something bigger, both in terms of social trends and also wider industry trends and research. And first, what we do is we ask why the trend matters and what that says about people’s needs or frustrations in general, and then trying to connect it into the brand itself and how brands can show up in that trend in a way that makes sense for them and doesn’t just seem like they’re trying to break into a conversation for the sake of it. Like on this social trend side of things example that I really love is from. It’s from last year actually, but Atwell solicitors, when there was the looking for a man in finance trends and they had an older employee who’s called Stephen, and he jumped on the trend, so he was sitting at his desk winking away when it said looking for a Man in finance six, five blue eyes. And it was really great to see this. It helped shields the human side of the firm and that solicitors can be humans too, whereas everyone else was doing it in a sort of way that was like, oh, yes, I’m looking for this young fancy man. And they were getting involved in it in a different way. But then in that sort of wider research, it’s tapping into what’s going on in those sort of conversational norms.

So, for example, things like the rise of nostalgia and then how brands can tap into that and how they can use that in their storytelling, whether that’s showing pictures from years go by or tapping into things like, oh, it’s Mean Girls Day. And if that’s a certain way that it ties into your. Your brand, then jumping onto those in a way that does make sense and again, is authentic and not just for the sake of it.

Jackie Cuyvers:
So you, you’ve written about balancing human creativity with machine efficiency and insights. Where do you draw the line between automation doing the heavy lifting and, and that human insight and human judgment?

Ishbel Macleod:
Great question. So I feel that automation is great for surfacing the patterns, looking into what comes out the most in some of those more manual assets, but the interpretation needs to be human. So, like, a dashboard can tell you what’s being said, but not why it matters, and it can’t root out those emotions behind it so much. And anyone who’s used almost any social listening tool knows that the automated sentiment tracker, for example, can be wildly wrong with the AI, what it thinks is negative and positive. So using tools to search through the noise is great, but that sort of gut instinct and that empathy is also really important for understanding the meaning and what’s actually important to customers and to audiences in general and using that clear split.

Jackie Cuyvers:
So you’ve mentioned a few different platforms and data sources, but also kind of trends that you’ve identified, have you, you know, as these new platforms emerge, like, you know, Threads or blue sky or TikTok, are you seeing new ways that people are, are communicating or engaging with others on these platforms or, or the ways that they’re sharing or consuming information?

Ishbel Macleod:
Definitely. I feel that maybe 10 years ago a lot of the information was on X, and I think a lot of social listening platforms are X focused and that was their first too. Whereas now conversations are happening all over the place. There’s Reddit, TikTok, LinkedIn, but I know the API can be a bit dodgy there for certain social listening platforms, but it does feel like there’s lots of disparate conversations being had all over the place and actually understanding to unpick those and the fact that they can be very different on different platforms. Some people might love something on X and there’s a huge positive community there, but then hate it on Reddit. Or there are certain very niche Reddit pages that talk about a certain aspect of something and how that can be used. That really can just help bring out so much more information than you would have known otherwise. I am actually a huge Reddit fan.

Ishbel Macleod:
I love the information you can find out about brands there. It’s so easy to go down a rabbit hole. So yeah, for me, I do find that there’s a lot more just for things. And you do find even just the certain leanings of people on X versus Blue sky can totally change what data you get out of it.

Jackie Cuyvers:
What is one of your favorite random or obscure subreddits?

Ishbel Macleod:
Oh, cats with jobs. Or there’s one and it’s called Halloween Kitties, which is when you’ve got like a black cat and ginger cat. That’s definitely one of my favorites.

Jackie Cuyvers:
I would have to pick. We want plates, which is where people show photographs of their meal that was served at some cafe or restaurant, but in some random way, like on a block of wood in a toilet bowl and where they would have just preferred to have it served on a regular plate.

Ishbel Macleod:
Oh yeah, there was a total phase of that. Wasn’t there someone who got it served on like a shovel? Yes.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Yep, yep, that’s the one. Yeah. So there’s, there’s a whole subreddit, you know, conversation still ongoing. So. So I will have to check out your Halloween cats and we can continue to share our favorite weird subreddits. So, thinking about all this content, so you were mentioning that we are seeing this emergence of all these new conversations, new social platforms. The amount of data is increasing exponentially. I think it was something like every day there’s 60 years of video content uploaded onto TikTok.

Jackie Cuyvers:
So I mean, there is an ever increasing amount of data out there. There are, you know, bots. How do you think about this data versus noise challenge when you’re doing your insights, projects or like, what, what, what are your views on, on how to think through or manage this issue?

Ishbel Macleod:
It’s definitely a concern. We’re seeing more even in terms of the social platforms itself having AI functionalities. For example, on X there’s so many people asking GROK questions and then all those answers taking up space in the social listening query for just random questions. I do find as well, that in terms of Boolean searches, they are having to evolve a lot faster in order to take out some of these terms. I think a lot of people who may not work in social listening might think it’s just popping in a brand name and you get everything back nice and simply. But there’s a lot that go into it, and some of the Boolean queries behind the scenes can be very long. For example, we work with a brand whose competitors include Robinhood and Kraken, the crypto brands. And for both of them, the amount of data that pulls back can be incredibly misleading to what is actually happening.

We get terms such as discussing the Disney film, talking about people as being like Robin Hoods or even places like Robin Hood Rhodes in terms of crack. And they might be talking about the rum, or they might be talking about the hockey team. And even when you remove certain words like hockey or rum, a lot of mentions are still pulling through. So it’s very difficult in the first place to understand the actual noise around the key brand versus noise around that word in general when it’s a very generic term. And I imagine that Apple must have a very hard time with it. So I think it is like it’s working out what’s going on with the Boolean query, finding certain key terms, you know, definitely not to include. But then sometimes it could be going either way. For example, for Kraken, then you might think, okay, exclude game, because we don’t want to talk about hockey games.

But people might be talking about cracking the crypto brand in terms of games. So it can be very difficult with what to actually remove and how to keep it correct. And I think that’s an ongoing process and potentially something that will evolve over time if, for example, AI tools and social listening do get more advanced. But at the moment, it can sometimes feel a little bit like whack a mole. Getting your Boolean query correct?

Jackie Cuyvers:
Absolutely. So you’re relying on not just exclusions, but then proximity or nearness in your Boolean query.

Ishbel Macleod:
Yes, a lot of this. If it’s within five words, then it’s good. If not, then.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Well, it sounds like you’re definitely putting in the time and effort to make sure you’ve got clean data to work with. So thinking through your different clients and the work that you’re doing at your agency, how do you see social listening connecting with areas like customer experience or product development or brand strategy?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think one of the best examples of this, and this is one of my favorite campaigns, not one that I’ve personally worked on. But just one I love is the Celebrations and Bounty Christmas campaign. And I feel that this really shows how social listening can tie into to product development and overall campaigns. So I’m not sure if you know this one, Jackie. Probably do. But they ran a social listening campaign and found out that Bounty was the least loved chocolate in the celebrations tenant. What they did was they then created a series of Christmas campaigns. The first was Lonely Bounty.

Ishbel Macleod:
They had a Bounty excluded from it. A whole campaign of someone dressed up as a, as a bounty being very sad that they weren’t included and Bounty free celebrations tins. And then the next year they did a campaign where there were tins that were just bounties. And this partially came from the insight about people hating bounties. And then they tied into this as well with an Advent calendars. They had a. I think it was two years ago, maybe three years ago. The first two chocolates were Bounty and people were very annoyed about this.

So they tapped into this and then created these whole campaigns and off the back of it they saw seals spike. They even saw an increase in sales of bounties themselves grow on Amazon. So I found this was a fantastic campaign that showed how carrying out this social listening into what people thought and what people thought of their Advent calendars just really helped drive their product sales overall in a humorous way. It got picked up by so many news outlets. So that’s my favorite example of how social listening can connect to everything else in the funnel.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Wow. People really take their Christmas chocolate seriously.

Ishbel Macleod:
They do.

Jackie Cuyvers:
How can social insights help detect emerging consumer trends or behavior patterns? I mean, I know you just touched on it there in the Christmas chocolate and you touched on trends earlier in our discussion, but do you have any specific views or examples on that?

Ishbel Macleod:
Yeah, I think looking at key topics, key searches and also sentiment can predict what’s going to be big. Looking at both your own brand, but then also using things like Pinterest trends to find out what’s happening. So it could be rise and search for a certain color on Pinterest, for example, there was the rise of cherry red as a color or at the moment there’s a rise in searches for quiet luxury lifestyle. I think it’s about 140% rise in searches on that on Pinterest over the past year in the uk. So looking into things like that can really help predict consumer trends and see the growth and where things might go in the future as well as those wider trends such as nostalgia, which seems to be a really big one right now. And Being able to understand those keywords and those topics can help brands plan and tap into those more, even if it’s things not directly related to them, but around the industry in general.

Jackie Cuyvers:
So, so you’ve touched on trends, both kind of micro trends, macro trends, industry trends. What are some signals from social data you think that people may miss?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think a lot of people can focus on some of the more basic metrics like the number of mentions or the total number of engagements, but then they don’t look at some of the more deeper behind the scenes aspects. So the questions that people are asking and the way they ask it, whether it’s a positive focus or negative focus or the area that they are focusing on. So for example, if people are complaining about a consumer’s, if people are complaining about a competitor’s product and saying, for example, if it was a lipstick then saying, oh, it’s got a really sticky after taste or it’s, it rubs off after five minutes, then you would look at that and go, okay, well this is what people are saying about it. And then twist it round to we know that our product doesn’t do that and we’ll therefore focus on those areas in the future. But looking at how people are talking about brands and where is something that I don’t think a lot of agencies or brands are doing as well as they could. They’re focusing more on themselves and not looking at what’s going on behind the scenes. How are people talking about them? Even things like Adam Mosseri, the head of Instagram, has talked a lot about shares on Instagram. So even focusing on those more specific metrics as opposed to just engagements overall.

And I think that while we can’t track it, then that dark social aspect is an area that is definitely rising. So seeing what we can track to make the most of what we can’t tell is going on.

Jackie Cuyvers:
How do you see AI and machine learning changing social listening in the next five years?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think that AI tools that are part of social listening are starting to get a lot more savvy. There’s tools that can now see the logos in posts, they can read brands being mentioned in a voiceover. So it’s pulling a lot more data and helping provide a lot more information than we could before, which is absolutely brilliant. And while it gets smarter, it hopefully means there’s a lot less manual aspects in future. But I do think there will still be some manual elements required for things like those little cultural areas that maybe it might not be able to tell what a certain word in Glasgow means versus what it might mean in London, for example, or even just getting some of that sentiment right, being able to tell sarcasm, which it can’t do correctly yet.

Jackie Cuyvers:
So absolutely. I think the AI tools are somewhat still lacking in context sometimes. So the same lack of context that you see in the LLMs themselves as those AI elements are pulled into the social listening pools, they’re bringing kind of the same kind of quirks or challenges of lacking that context. So for example, we were looking, looking at the conversation around the NFL super bowl last year and one of the social listening tools, it summarized the peaks in the data and, and gave us an AI summary of what was happening in the conversation and its summary said Taylor Swift wins the super bowl and well, obviously she’s a singer, not one of the, you know, football players. So she didn’t. But, but the overall volume of news and conversation was about her being at the super bowl. So. So if that, you know, it was the AI sum, but lacking the context to understand her role within the conversation and game.

So it was pretty funny though, for sure. I think you’re right about the human element and view and review and judgment and context absolutely still being necessary. If you look ahead 10 years, how do you think the field of social listening and insights might change or might look different?

Ishbel Macleod:
What I’ve noticed over the past 10 years in general is that people are paying more attention to social insights and social listening. And I think that that’s going to happen even more in the next 10 years. It’s going to become a lot more commonplace. And part of this is looking at all these new social platforms that are coming in. It used to just be almost the big four, the big five, and now there are so many different platforms. I think part of that will mean that APIs and tools will have to evolve in order to pull through all this data and understanding what’s going on to account for all these more diluted conversations. And I think as well there’s going to be the growth of social search because people are turning more for social media for everything, whether that’s asking what something means or for a recipe as opposed to just having conversations about the bake off like it might have been in the old days. So I think that is also going to impact what people do on social media and therefore how we end up using this for social listening and how we end up using it to find insights in general because a lot more people will be using it in different ways and therefore we can draw more conclusions about people and what they’re looking for in general.

Jackie Cuyvers:
We had our first client reach out to us last month who said I found your information and gave you a call because Chat GPT said to call you because this is, you know, you guys are the, the right company for what I need. I’m like, wow, that’s, that’s pretty awesome. Thanks Chat GPT for the reference. So yeah, for sure people are using the search or insights and information on online in different ways. So it’ll be interesting to see how that evolves thinking through, you know, kind of the industry and your expertise. What resources, whether those are books, blogs, networks, do you use to stay up to date on the industry or new innovations?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think there are a lot of different ones that people can use. So for example, I sign up to a lot of marketing and insights, newsletters, things like Work Kantar, a lot of industry reports from Brand Watch, Sprout Social, the data reportal messages that come out quarterly have so much information and also just keeping on track with what industry experts are seeing across platforms like LinkedIn. You can discover so much there, news, case studies really help them understand what’s going on and then how to use that information. And I think that’s just such great resources that you can access for free to find out what, what’s happening and really keep up to date. Whereas some things like books, it might be two years out of date by the time it comes out. But there’s so many resources on the Internet that are bang up to date. It’s just making sure you find the ones that are correct and not spinning a line.

Jackie Cuyvers:
What advice would you give to someone who wants to start a career in social listening and insights?

Ishbel Macleod:
I would suggest playing around with some of the free tools that are available as well as dashboards. So learning how to use those will give you a great head start when it comes to, to applying for jobs. Being able to use something even like Looker Studio and understanding things like data sets can be so helpful. Doing some of the free courses that are available online to get yourself acquainted with things like how to create a Boolean query will make your life a lot easier down the line and really help you to sort of get that first layer of knowledge. So if you are applying for your first job, you can use that, help yourself to stand out that way.

Jackie Cuyvers:
I think those are some, you know, great ideas on tools or resources to get started with. Is there, is there anything else you would potentially advise a student or new professional on, on what educational path or skills they should focus on?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think that understanding how to work with data sets can be really key, possibly because I didn’t see myself ever going down this route. I never realized how much I would need to learn about Excel or now Google sheets as well and learning all these formulas. So I no knowledge of those when I really started in this role. So definitely understanding that and being able to understand all the different formulas in Excel would be a major benefit to anyone. I also think kind of understanding human behavior can be very useful. A lot of what we do when it looks at audience analysis is that more personality side of things. Splitting people into those segmentations and understanding behaviors can be so useful to doing that. And even just a brief insight into psychology can totally help bring that to life and understand why people do things or what they’re doing.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Thank you so much for sharing kind of your insights and expertise and really practical advice for other people who’d like to get involved in this. I know that you shared that nosiness drove you through your path from journalist to Insights professional, but would you say your curiosity has been satisfied or do you wake up still every day ready to go and curious about the next new thing?

Ishbel Macleod:
I think definitely curious about the next new thing, partially just because we’ve got so many new clients that working on different areas, there’s always something different. One time it will be working on an insurance brand and the very next day it will be looking at something for a clothing brand. So there’s always something new to be curious about. And with the way that things are changing, there’s always a new area to look at.

Jackie Cuyvers:
Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Ishkal. I really appreciate you joining us today.

Ishbel Macleod:
Thanks Jackie.

Jackie Cuyvers:
And that’s a wrap for this episode of the Women in Social Listening and Insights podcast. I hope you’ve enjoyed this conversation and taken away some valuable insights and advice from today’s guest. If you like this episode, please be sure to subscribe to our podcast on itunes or Spotify so you never miss an episode. And don’t forget to follow us on LinkedIn for updates and additional resources. I’d like to take a minute to Once again, thank our interviewee for taking the time to join us on the show today and sharing her story and insights with us. Your contribution to the world of social intelligence is truly invaluable and we’re so grateful for you sharing your time and expertise. And finally, if you listeners know of anyone else who would make a great guest on our show, please don’t hesitate to introduce us. We’re always on the lookout for new and inspiring stories.

Until next time, I’m Jackie Cuyvers and this is the Women in Social Listening and Insights podcast. Thanks so much for listening.